Comments on: How not to do a Goenka Vipassana retreat, in 15,000 words or less http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/ Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:10:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Christian http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-336426 Christian Thu, 21 May 2009 17:22:43 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-336426 Hi Melissa, The first time I did a Vipassana course in India I was positive there was a hidden agenda. Hell, I felt like Anakin turning to the Dark Side! Yes to sleep deprivation, malnourishment, the works. I wanted to leave on almost every moment of every day. I stayed. I gave myself the chance to fully experience the Goenka style course. After talking with friends about my experiences at the Dhamma center, I came to the understanding that allot of my negative experiences are actually caused by the center. Each center operates individually. Still I was skeptical and convinced I would never do a retreat by Goenka again. Fast forward 6 months. I was in Israel and heard positive things about the dhamma center at the Dead Sea. I decided to give it one more chance (try everything twice). I'm glad I did. It was a completely different experience. The dhamma workers really where there for me, the food was fantastic (all you can eat, and then some). I can go on and on comparing, but your getting the point. It was a great experience. I'm glad I did it. (Still it is hard, sitting 11 hours/10 days isn't everybody's cup of tea). Now, I'm doing a course a year. I do however sneak my iPod in my pocket, there is better chanting to lissen to ;) It is upsetting to know that there are more dhamma centers out there that do not get the meaning of "Being Happy". They are ruining an otherwise excellent opportunity for development. Only love! Hi Melissa,

The first time I did a Vipassana course in India I was positive there was a hidden agenda. Hell, I felt like Anakin turning to the Dark Side! Yes to sleep deprivation, malnourishment, the works. I wanted to leave on almost every moment of every day. I stayed. I gave myself the chance to fully experience the Goenka style course.

After talking with friends about my experiences at the Dhamma center, I came to the understanding that allot of my negative experiences are actually caused by the center. Each center operates individually. Still I was skeptical and convinced I would never do a retreat by Goenka again.

Fast forward 6 months. I was in Israel and heard positive things about the dhamma center at the Dead Sea. I decided to give it one more chance (try everything twice). I’m glad I did. It was a completely different experience. The dhamma workers really where there for me, the food was fantastic (all you can eat, and then some). I can go on and on comparing, but your getting the point. It was a great experience. I’m glad I did it. (Still it is hard, sitting 11 hours/10 days isn’t everybody’s cup of tea).

Now, I’m doing a course a year. I do however sneak my iPod in my pocket, there is better chanting to lissen to ;)

It is upsetting to know that there are more dhamma centers out there that do not get the meaning of “Being Happy”. They are ruining an otherwise excellent opportunity for development.

Only love!

]]> By: Christian http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340950 Christian Thu, 21 May 2009 17:22:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340950 Hi Melissa, The first time I did a Vipassana course in India I was positive there was a hidden agenda. Hell, I felt like Anakin turning to the Dark Side! Yes to sleep deprivation, malnourishment, the works. I wanted to leave on almost every moment of every day. I stayed. I gave myself the chance to fully experience the Goenka style course. After talking with friends about my experiences at the Dhamma center, I came to the understanding that allot of my negative experiences are actually caused by the center. Each center operates individually. Still I was skeptical and convinced I would never do a retreat by Goenka again. Fast forward 6 months. I was in Israel and heard positive things about the dhamma center at the Dead Sea. I decided to give it one more chance (try everything twice). I'm glad I did. It was a completely different experience. The dhamma workers really where there for me, the food was fantastic (all you can eat, and then some). I can go on and on comparing, but your getting the point. It was a great experience. I'm glad I did it. (Still it is hard, sitting 11 hours/10 days isn't everybody's cup of tea). Now, I'm doing a course a year. I do however sneak my iPod in my pocket, there is better chanting to lissen to ;) It is upsetting to know that there are more dhamma centers out there that do not get the meaning of "Being Happy". They are ruining an otherwise excellent opportunity for development. Only love! Hi Melissa,

The first time I did a Vipassana course in India I was positive there was a hidden agenda. Hell, I felt like Anakin turning to the Dark Side! Yes to sleep deprivation, malnourishment, the works. I wanted to leave on almost every moment of every day. I stayed. I gave myself the chance to fully experience the Goenka style course.

After talking with friends about my experiences at the Dhamma center, I came to the understanding that allot of my negative experiences are actually caused by the center. Each center operates individually. Still I was skeptical and convinced I would never do a retreat by Goenka again.

Fast forward 6 months. I was in Israel and heard positive things about the dhamma center at the Dead Sea. I decided to give it one more chance (try everything twice). I’m glad I did. It was a completely different experience. The dhamma workers really where there for me, the food was fantastic (all you can eat, and then some). I can go on and on comparing, but your getting the point. It was a great experience. I’m glad I did it. (Still it is hard, sitting 11 hours/10 days isn’t everybody’s cup of tea).

Now, I’m doing a course a year. I do however sneak my iPod in my pocket, there is better chanting to lissen to ;)

It is upsetting to know that there are more dhamma centers out there that do not get the meaning of “Being Happy”. They are ruining an otherwise excellent opportunity for development.

Only love!

]]> By: Dante http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-335987 Dante Mon, 11 May 2009 21:50:51 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-335987 Hi Melissa, I am so very sorry to hear about your miserable experience. While there's no doubt that you had only yourself to blame for some of your struggles (which you clearly acknowledge in your own writing) there is absolutely no doubt that what you experienced is an abuse of Goenka's actual intended teachings and process. I completed a 10-day myself, but had I experienced it in the same way you did I absolutely would have left too. I'm not a "joiner", have not attended another retreat in over a decade now, and do not even practice Vipassana any longer. So, I have absolutely no personal agenda in defending Goenka. At the retreat I attended food was VERY ample, every effort was made by staff to make people comfortable, amenities were very well maintained, schedule was adhered to perfectly (watches were not prohibited), and all of the assistants were helpful and compassionate beyond measure. I actually agree with the fact that overeating makes things harder, but this is something that most attendees come to on their own after 3-4 days of having as much food as they want available to them for 2 meals a day. By mid-week I actually found myself TRYING to eat less because I had already learned by then how uncomfortable the sitting was on an over full stomach. In the beginning it was all too easy to eat for entertainment in the absence of all other recreation and outside stimulation. Even so, all other centers I've heard of uphold the idea that this is something you need to come to on your own, and provide as much food as is desired by attendees. Having a degree in Hypnotherapy, I can also say that the Goenka recordings are most certainly not using any classic induction techniques, and at least a number of the things you suspected as being "tools" for brainwashing like lying or distorting the timing of sessions are certainly not part of Goenka's process, since other retreat centers do not employ the same "tactics". Were this actually part of Goenka's agenda (overtly or covertly), it would obviously be consistent at all, or at least most, of his meditation centers around the world. In the end though, even with completely satisfactory food, accommodations, and basic needs being met, it was still grueling. On day 8, if I could have spoken, I would have declared with complete certitude that I would never EVER be attending another vipassana course again. Yet, just a few days later, once speaking again, the consciousness changing effect was palpable and obvious, and it lasted acutely for weeks afterwards, and more subtly for months thereafter without any daily maintenance of the practice. I actually look forward to going again someday. It's certainly not for everyone, but it's just as certainly not a cult as it doesn't meet any of the typical criteria for that definition... no systemic manipulation of it's adherents for financial or sexual gain. No promotion of communal living or separation of adherents from family and friends outside of the retreats themselves. In fact, the specific teaching promotes the exact opposite, a fully engaged and active life in the broader community beyond other vipassana practitioners. As for elements of "mind-control" in Goenka's teachings, there is no more of that in Vipassana than in any other teachings of "true believers" regardless of the faith or philosophy, be it Christian, Judaic, Buddhist, Athiest, Anthony Robbins, or the latest weight loss fad. In the end, I am truly sorry you were subjected to such a distorted expression of Goenka's actual teaching, but also admire greatly your encouraging others to judge for themselves it's merits even after that horrible time. Had I experienced Vipassana in the same place and way you had, I doubt I would have been so generous. :) Hi Melissa,

I am so very sorry to hear about your miserable experience.

While there’s no doubt that you had only yourself to blame for some of your struggles (which you clearly acknowledge in your own writing) there is absolutely no doubt that what you experienced is an abuse of Goenka’s actual intended teachings and process.

I completed a 10-day myself, but had I experienced it in the same way you did I absolutely would have left too.

I’m not a “joiner”, have not attended another retreat in over a decade now, and do not even practice Vipassana any longer. So, I have absolutely no personal agenda in defending Goenka.

At the retreat I attended food was VERY ample, every effort was made by staff to make people comfortable, amenities were very well maintained, schedule was adhered to perfectly (watches were not prohibited), and all of the assistants were helpful and compassionate beyond measure.

I actually agree with the fact that overeating makes things harder, but this is something that most attendees come to on their own after 3-4 days of having as much food as they want available to them for 2 meals a day.

By mid-week I actually found myself TRYING to eat less because I had already learned by then how uncomfortable the sitting was on an over full stomach.

In the beginning it was all too easy to eat for entertainment in the absence of all other recreation and outside stimulation.

Even so, all other centers I’ve heard of uphold the idea that this is something you need to come to on your own, and provide as much food as is desired by attendees.

Having a degree in Hypnotherapy, I can also say that the Goenka recordings are most certainly not using any classic induction techniques, and at least a number of the things you suspected as being “tools” for brainwashing like lying or distorting the timing of sessions are certainly not part of Goenka’s process, since other retreat centers do not employ the same “tactics”.

Were this actually part of Goenka’s agenda (overtly or covertly), it would obviously be consistent at all, or at least most, of his meditation centers around the world.

In the end though, even with completely satisfactory food, accommodations, and basic needs being met, it was still grueling. On day 8, if I could have spoken, I would have declared with complete certitude that I would never EVER be attending another vipassana course again.

Yet, just a few days later, once speaking again, the consciousness changing effect was palpable and obvious, and it lasted acutely for weeks afterwards, and more subtly for months thereafter without any daily maintenance of the practice.

I actually look forward to going again someday.

It’s certainly not for everyone, but it’s just as certainly not a cult as it doesn’t meet any of the typical criteria for that definition… no systemic manipulation of it’s adherents for financial or sexual gain. No promotion of communal living or separation of adherents from family and friends outside of the retreats themselves.

In fact, the specific teaching promotes the exact opposite, a fully engaged and active life in the broader community beyond other vipassana practitioners.

As for elements of “mind-control” in Goenka’s teachings, there is no more of that in Vipassana than in any other teachings of “true believers” regardless of the faith or philosophy, be it Christian, Judaic, Buddhist, Athiest, Anthony Robbins, or the latest weight loss fad.

In the end, I am truly sorry you were subjected to such a distorted expression of Goenka’s actual teaching, but also admire greatly your encouraging others to judge for themselves it’s merits even after that horrible time.

Had I experienced Vipassana in the same place and way you had, I doubt I would have been so generous. :)

]]> By: Dante http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340949 Dante Mon, 11 May 2009 21:50:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340949 Hi Melissa, I am so very sorry to hear about your miserable experience. While there's no doubt that you had only yourself to blame for some of your struggles (which you clearly acknowledge in your own writing) there is absolutely no doubt that what you experienced is an abuse of Goenka's actual intended teachings and process. I completed a 10-day myself, but had I experienced it in the same way you did I absolutely would have left too. I'm not a "joiner", have not attended another retreat in over a decade now, and do not even practice Vipassana any longer. So, I have absolutely no personal agenda in defending Goenka. At the retreat I attended food was VERY ample, every effort was made by staff to make people comfortable, amenities were very well maintained, schedule was adhered to perfectly (watches were not prohibited), and all of the assistants were helpful and compassionate beyond measure. I actually agree with the fact that overeating makes things harder, but this is something that most attendees come to on their own after 3-4 days of having as much food as they want available to them for 2 meals a day. By mid-week I actually found myself TRYING to eat less because I had already learned by then how uncomfortable the sitting was on an over full stomach. In the beginning it was all too easy to eat for entertainment in the absence of all other recreation and outside stimulation. Even so, all other centers I've heard of uphold the idea that this is something you need to come to on your own, and provide as much food as is desired by attendees. Having a degree in Hypnotherapy, I can also say that the Goenka recordings are most certainly not using any classic induction techniques, and at least a number of the things you suspected as being "tools" for brainwashing like lying or distorting the timing of sessions are certainly not part of Goenka's process, since other retreat centers do not employ the same "tactics". Were this actually part of Goenka's agenda (overtly or covertly), it would obviously be consistent at all, or at least most, of his meditation centers around the world. In the end though, even with completely satisfactory food, accommodations, and basic needs being met, it was still grueling. On day 8, if I could have spoken, I would have declared with complete certitude that I would never EVER be attending another vipassana course again. Yet, just a few days later, once speaking again, the consciousness changing effect was palpable and obvious, and it lasted acutely for weeks afterwards, and more subtly for months thereafter without any daily maintenance of the practice. I actually look forward to going again someday. It's certainly not for everyone, but it's just as certainly not a cult as it doesn't meet any of the typical criteria for that definition... no systemic manipulation of it's adherents for financial or sexual gain. No promotion of communal living or separation of adherents from family and friends outside of the retreats themselves. In fact, the specific teaching promotes the exact opposite, a fully engaged and active life in the broader community beyond other vipassana practitioners. As for elements of "mind-control" in Goenka's teachings, there is no more of that in Vipassana than in any other teachings of "true believers" regardless of the faith or philosophy, be it Christian, Judaic, Buddhist, Athiest, Anthony Robbins, or the latest weight loss fad. In the end, I am truly sorry you were subjected to such a distorted expression of Goenka's actual teaching, but also admire greatly your encouraging others to judge for themselves it's merits even after that horrible time. Had I experienced Vipassana in the same place and way you had, I doubt I would have been so generous. :) Hi Melissa,

I am so very sorry to hear about your miserable experience.

While there’s no doubt that you had only yourself to blame for some of your struggles (which you clearly acknowledge in your own writing) there is absolutely no doubt that what you experienced is an abuse of Goenka’s actual intended teachings and process.

I completed a 10-day myself, but had I experienced it in the same way you did I absolutely would have left too.

I’m not a “joiner”, have not attended another retreat in over a decade now, and do not even practice Vipassana any longer. So, I have absolutely no personal agenda in defending Goenka.

At the retreat I attended food was VERY ample, every effort was made by staff to make people comfortable, amenities were very well maintained, schedule was adhered to perfectly (watches were not prohibited), and all of the assistants were helpful and compassionate beyond measure.

I actually agree with the fact that overeating makes things harder, but this is something that most attendees come to on their own after 3-4 days of having as much food as they want available to them for 2 meals a day.

By mid-week I actually found myself TRYING to eat less because I had already learned by then how uncomfortable the sitting was on an over full stomach.

In the beginning it was all too easy to eat for entertainment in the absence of all other recreation and outside stimulation.

Even so, all other centers I’ve heard of uphold the idea that this is something you need to come to on your own, and provide as much food as is desired by attendees.

Having a degree in Hypnotherapy, I can also say that the Goenka recordings are most certainly not using any classic induction techniques, and at least a number of the things you suspected as being “tools” for brainwashing like lying or distorting the timing of sessions are certainly not part of Goenka’s process, since other retreat centers do not employ the same “tactics”.

Were this actually part of Goenka’s agenda (overtly or covertly), it would obviously be consistent at all, or at least most, of his meditation centers around the world.

In the end though, even with completely satisfactory food, accommodations, and basic needs being met, it was still grueling. On day 8, if I could have spoken, I would have declared with complete certitude that I would never EVER be attending another vipassana course again.

Yet, just a few days later, once speaking again, the consciousness changing effect was palpable and obvious, and it lasted acutely for weeks afterwards, and more subtly for months thereafter without any daily maintenance of the practice.

I actually look forward to going again someday.

It’s certainly not for everyone, but it’s just as certainly not a cult as it doesn’t meet any of the typical criteria for that definition… no systemic manipulation of it’s adherents for financial or sexual gain. No promotion of communal living or separation of adherents from family and friends outside of the retreats themselves.

In fact, the specific teaching promotes the exact opposite, a fully engaged and active life in the broader community beyond other vipassana practitioners.

As for elements of “mind-control” in Goenka’s teachings, there is no more of that in Vipassana than in any other teachings of “true believers” regardless of the faith or philosophy, be it Christian, Judaic, Buddhist, Athiest, Anthony Robbins, or the latest weight loss fad.

In the end, I am truly sorry you were subjected to such a distorted expression of Goenka’s actual teaching, but also admire greatly your encouraging others to judge for themselves it’s merits even after that horrible time.

Had I experienced Vipassana in the same place and way you had, I doubt I would have been so generous. :)

]]> By: Saraha http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-335461 Saraha Fri, 01 May 2009 05:35:11 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-335461 The bus ride home sounds like musical chairs, at least at the retreat you got an assigned place too be and what’s with the 3+6 = 9 empress, indecision, hermit…lol Anyway the road map of the stages of insight practice may be of benefit. . Ref….Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book, by Daniel M. Ingram, MD MSPH, Arahat, I found Daniel’s book very helpful. Singing can also be very helpful Crossroads, seem to come and go, yeah. The gypsy flies from coast to coast Knowing many, loving none, Bearing sorrow havin' fun, But back home he'll always run To sweet Melissa... mmm... Freight train, each car looks the same, all the same. And no one knows the Gypsy's name No one hears his lonely sighs, There are no blankets where he lies. In all his deepest dreams the Gypsy flies with sweet Melissa... mmm... Again the morning's come, Again he's on the run, Sunbeams shining through his hair, Appearing not to have a care. Well, pick up your gear and Gypsy roll on, roll on. Crossroads, will you ever let him go? (Lord, Lord) Will you hide the dead man's ghost, Or will he lie, beneath the clay, or will his spirit float away? But I know that he won't stay without Melissa. Yes I know that he won't stay without Melissa. Allman Brothers.. metta The bus ride home sounds like musical chairs, at least at the retreat you got an assigned place too be and what’s with the 3+6 = 9 empress, indecision, hermit…lol

Anyway the road map of the stages of insight practice may be of benefit. .

Ref….Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book, by Daniel M. Ingram, MD MSPH, Arahat,

I found Daniel’s book very helpful.

Singing can also be very helpful

Crossroads, seem to come and go, yeah.
The gypsy flies from coast to coast

Knowing many, loving none,
Bearing sorrow havin’ fun,
But back home he’ll always run
To sweet Melissa… mmm…

Freight train, each car looks the same, all the same.
And no one knows the Gypsy’s name

No one hears his lonely sighs,
There are no blankets where he lies.
In all his deepest dreams the Gypsy flies
with sweet Melissa… mmm…

Again the morning’s come,
Again he’s on the run,
Sunbeams shining through his hair,
Appearing not to have a care.
Well, pick up your gear and Gypsy roll on, roll on.

Crossroads, will you ever let him go? (Lord, Lord)
Will you hide the dead man’s ghost,
Or will he lie, beneath the clay,
or will his spirit float away?

But I know that he won’t stay without Melissa.

Yes I know that he won’t stay without Melissa.

Allman Brothers..

metta

]]> By: Saraha http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340948 Saraha Fri, 01 May 2009 05:35:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340948 The bus ride home sounds like musical chairs, at least at the retreat you got an assigned place too be and what’s with the 3+6 = 9 empress, indecision, hermit…lol Anyway the road map of the stages of insight practice may be of benefit. . Ref….Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book, by Daniel M. Ingram, MD MSPH, Arahat, I found Daniel’s book very helpful. Singing can also be very helpful Crossroads, seem to come and go, yeah. The gypsy flies from coast to coast Knowing many, loving none, Bearing sorrow havin' fun, But back home he'll always run To sweet Melissa... mmm... Freight train, each car looks the same, all the same. And no one knows the Gypsy's name No one hears his lonely sighs, There are no blankets where he lies. In all his deepest dreams the Gypsy flies with sweet Melissa... mmm... Again the morning's come, Again he's on the run, Sunbeams shining through his hair, Appearing not to have a care. Well, pick up your gear and Gypsy roll on, roll on. Crossroads, will you ever let him go? (Lord, Lord) Will you hide the dead man's ghost, Or will he lie, beneath the clay, or will his spirit float away? But I know that he won't stay without Melissa. Yes I know that he won't stay without Melissa. Allman Brothers.. metta The bus ride home sounds like musical chairs, at least at the retreat you got an assigned place too be and what’s with the 3+6 = 9 empress, indecision, hermit…lol

Anyway the road map of the stages of insight practice may be of benefit. .

Ref….Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book, by Daniel M. Ingram, MD MSPH, Arahat,

I found Daniel’s book very helpful.

Singing can also be very helpful

Crossroads, seem to come and go, yeah.
The gypsy flies from coast to coast

Knowing many, loving none,
Bearing sorrow havin’ fun,
But back home he’ll always run
To sweet Melissa… mmm…

Freight train, each car looks the same, all the same.
And no one knows the Gypsy’s name

No one hears his lonely sighs,
There are no blankets where he lies.
In all his deepest dreams the Gypsy flies
with sweet Melissa… mmm…

Again the morning’s come,
Again he’s on the run,
Sunbeams shining through his hair,
Appearing not to have a care.
Well, pick up your gear and Gypsy roll on, roll on.

Crossroads, will you ever let him go? (Lord, Lord)
Will you hide the dead man’s ghost,
Or will he lie, beneath the clay,
or will his spirit float away?

But I know that he won’t stay without Melissa.

Yes I know that he won’t stay without Melissa.

Allman Brothers..

metta

]]> By: YRG http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-335426 YRG Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:51:31 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-335426 Melissa, Thank you for your write up and post. I love your writing style. I've also done NaNoWriMo and would like to read more of your work if you're willing to share. I'll check your site to see if I can find more. About the course-- I left on Day 0 after the first sit. The course was very confusing when I registered-- probably because it's all volunteer run and they may not know any more than you about what to do. However, I found the course manager at my place very helpful. Although, no one I spoke to would tell me anything about what I should expect from the course, and I only found out more after I left. I had been expecting to learn about meditation and that it would be non-denominational. However, I was put off by a number of things that happened during the first sitting. For one, they offer cushions for you to sit on, but they don't tell you how to sit. Goenka says in the tape that you can sit how you want and move how you want, but it would be nice if someone told me that beforehand, so there was not any uncertainty. There is a lot of that-- keeping you wondering what is next. Even the schedule, while rigorous, is unclear. I had to ask for a watch as I had to check in my phone, which I use as a watch. I was frightened by the chanting in the beginning as I did not expect it at all. I thought I heard one woman crying. It is very disconcerting and unexpected-- again, in keeping with the uncertain feeling of the course. Goenka himself is very calm when he starts speaking, but another concern was when he asked that we set aside all religious beliefs for the time we are there. I didn't feel that I could do that, so I did not take any of the oaths and spoke to the teacher after. I explained that I didn't think I could do this and why, he recommended that I leave, so I did. I felt conflicted about leaving as I had made a commitment to do this, taking the time off from work and telling close friends and family, but I feel that the experience told me more about myself, including what I really believe. After reading your experience and more about the course I am glad I didn't stay any longer after deciding it wasn't for me. Melissa,
Thank you for your write up and post. I love your writing style. I’ve also done NaNoWriMo and would like to read more of your work if you’re willing to share. I’ll check your site to see if I can find more. About the course– I left on Day 0 after the first sit. The course was very confusing when I registered– probably because it’s all volunteer run and they may not know any more than you about what to do. However, I found the course manager at my place very helpful. Although, no one I spoke to would tell me anything about what I should expect from the course, and I only found out more after I left. I had been expecting to learn about meditation and that it would be non-denominational. However, I was put off by a number of things that happened during the first sitting. For one, they offer cushions for you to sit on, but they don’t tell you how to sit. Goenka says in the tape that you can sit how you want and move how you want, but it would be nice if someone told me that beforehand, so there was not any uncertainty. There is a lot of that– keeping you wondering what is next. Even the schedule, while rigorous, is unclear. I had to ask for a watch as I had to check in my phone, which I use as a watch. I was frightened by the chanting in the beginning as I did not expect it at all. I thought I heard one woman crying. It is very disconcerting and unexpected– again, in keeping with the uncertain feeling of the course. Goenka himself is very calm when he starts speaking, but another concern was when he asked that we set aside all religious beliefs for the time we are there. I didn’t feel that I could do that, so I did not take any of the oaths and spoke to the teacher after. I explained that I didn’t think I could do this and why, he recommended that I leave, so I did. I felt conflicted about leaving as I had made a commitment to do this, taking the time off from work and telling close friends and family, but I feel that the experience told me more about myself, including what I really believe. After reading your experience and more about the course I am glad I didn’t stay any longer after deciding it wasn’t for me.

]]> By: YRG http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340947 YRG Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:51:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340947 Melissa, Thank you for your write up and post. I love your writing style. I've also done NaNoWriMo and would like to read more of your work if you're willing to share. I'll check your site to see if I can find more. About the course-- I left on Day 0 after the first sit. The course was very confusing when I registered-- probably because it's all volunteer run and they may not know any more than you about what to do. However, I found the course manager at my place very helpful. Although, no one I spoke to would tell me anything about what I should expect from the course, and I only found out more after I left. I had been expecting to learn about meditation and that it would be non-denominational. However, I was put off by a number of things that happened during the first sitting. For one, they offer cushions for you to sit on, but they don't tell you how to sit. Goenka says in the tape that you can sit how you want and move how you want, but it would be nice if someone told me that beforehand, so there was not any uncertainty. There is a lot of that-- keeping you wondering what is next. Even the schedule, while rigorous, is unclear. I had to ask for a watch as I had to check in my phone, which I use as a watch. I was frightened by the chanting in the beginning as I did not expect it at all. I thought I heard one woman crying. It is very disconcerting and unexpected-- again, in keeping with the uncertain feeling of the course. Goenka himself is very calm when he starts speaking, but another concern was when he asked that we set aside all religious beliefs for the time we are there. I didn't feel that I could do that, so I did not take any of the oaths and spoke to the teacher after. I explained that I didn't think I could do this and why, he recommended that I leave, so I did. I felt conflicted about leaving as I had made a commitment to do this, taking the time off from work and telling close friends and family, but I feel that the experience told me more about myself, including what I really believe. After reading your experience and more about the course I am glad I didn't stay any longer after deciding it wasn't for me. Melissa,
Thank you for your write up and post. I love your writing style. I’ve also done NaNoWriMo and would like to read more of your work if you’re willing to share. I’ll check your site to see if I can find more. About the course– I left on Day 0 after the first sit. The course was very confusing when I registered– probably because it’s all volunteer run and they may not know any more than you about what to do. However, I found the course manager at my place very helpful. Although, no one I spoke to would tell me anything about what I should expect from the course, and I only found out more after I left. I had been expecting to learn about meditation and that it would be non-denominational. However, I was put off by a number of things that happened during the first sitting. For one, they offer cushions for you to sit on, but they don’t tell you how to sit. Goenka says in the tape that you can sit how you want and move how you want, but it would be nice if someone told me that beforehand, so there was not any uncertainty. There is a lot of that– keeping you wondering what is next. Even the schedule, while rigorous, is unclear. I had to ask for a watch as I had to check in my phone, which I use as a watch. I was frightened by the chanting in the beginning as I did not expect it at all. I thought I heard one woman crying. It is very disconcerting and unexpected– again, in keeping with the uncertain feeling of the course. Goenka himself is very calm when he starts speaking, but another concern was when he asked that we set aside all religious beliefs for the time we are there. I didn’t feel that I could do that, so I did not take any of the oaths and spoke to the teacher after. I explained that I didn’t think I could do this and why, he recommended that I leave, so I did. I felt conflicted about leaving as I had made a commitment to do this, taking the time off from work and telling close friends and family, but I feel that the experience told me more about myself, including what I really believe. After reading your experience and more about the course I am glad I didn’t stay any longer after deciding it wasn’t for me.

]]> By: Melissa http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-334471 Melissa Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:58:01 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-334471 @Aryon I think that comment deserves a full-on lol, and I'm pretty conservative with my lol-ing. If others would let themselves be so easily swayed by a complete stranger's comments on the web, then I think it stands to reason they wouldn't have made it through the first day of a retreat anyway. I read <em>lots</em> of negative comments before I went on my retreat, and to be honest it only made me want to go more. Oh, and in my post I do actually encourage people to go on a retreat to try it for themselves. Guess you skimmed over that part. Glad you know so much about my mind and ego from reading a single blog post, one that you clearly didn't even read thoroughly. I never knew Goenka retreats made one omniscient! That's fantastic, good for you - now everyone's sure to go. Mission accomplished! Can I just add another lol here? The irony of your comment really did made my day. Seriously, no sarcasm. @Aryon I think that comment deserves a full-on lol, and I’m pretty conservative with my lol-ing.

If others would let themselves be so easily swayed by a complete stranger’s comments on the web, then I think it stands to reason they wouldn’t have made it through the first day of a retreat anyway. I read lots of negative comments before I went on my retreat, and to be honest it only made me want to go more. Oh, and in my post I do actually encourage people to go on a retreat to try it for themselves. Guess you skimmed over that part.

Glad you know so much about my mind and ego from reading a single blog post, one that you clearly didn’t even read thoroughly. I never knew Goenka retreats made one omniscient! That’s fantastic, good for you – now everyone’s sure to go. Mission accomplished!

Can I just add another lol here? The irony of your comment really did made my day. Seriously, no sarcasm.

]]> By: Melissa http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340946 Melissa Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:58:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340946 @Aryon I think that comment deserves a full-on lol, and I'm pretty conservative with my lol-ing. If others would let themselves be so easily swayed by a complete stranger's comments on the web, then I think it stands to reason they wouldn't have made it through the first day of a retreat anyway. I read <em>lots</em> of negative comments before I went on my retreat, and to be honest it only made me want to go more. Oh, and in my post I do actually encourage people to go on a retreat to try it for themselves. Guess you skimmed over that part. Glad you know so much about my mind and ego from reading a single blog post, one that you clearly didn't even read thoroughly. I never knew Goenka retreats made one omniscient! That's fantastic, good for you - now everyone's sure to go. Mission accomplished! Can I just add another lol here? The irony of your comment really did made my day. Seriously, no sarcasm. @Aryon I think that comment deserves a full-on lol, and I’m pretty conservative with my lol-ing.

If others would let themselves be so easily swayed by a complete stranger’s comments on the web, then I think it stands to reason they wouldn’t have made it through the first day of a retreat anyway. I read lots of negative comments before I went on my retreat, and to be honest it only made me want to go more. Oh, and in my post I do actually encourage people to go on a retreat to try it for themselves. Guess you skimmed over that part.

Glad you know so much about my mind and ego from reading a single blog post, one that you clearly didn’t even read thoroughly. I never knew Goenka retreats made one omniscient! That’s fantastic, good for you – now everyone’s sure to go. Mission accomplished!

Can I just add another lol here? The irony of your comment really did made my day. Seriously, no sarcasm.

]]> By: Aryon http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-334467 Aryon Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:50:51 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-334467 Dear Melissa, I'm a 3 retreat veteran. The last retreat gave me the final mind state that has capped any additional need. Sorry you missed the opportunity of the full 10 day retreat. What you describe is understandable. One day you may see it ... see it all. I cannot say words here to break through to you if what you have tried so far has not helped you ... which it looks like it has not. If a group people are trying to win a prize and only some gain that prize... some of the others may feel negative toward the whole process... no? Especially if they give up ... and don't give it the full term... if they don't really try... if they even break the rules before they start... ? How can you blame anyone but yourself if you are not going to be honest or sincere in your effort. Why did you even want to attend this retreat? Keep doing the easy meditation practices that leave your monkey mind / ego in charge. Too bad your blithering self absorbed comments will discourage others... oh well. It is a good documentary on how not to do a Vipassana retreat. I agree. Thank you. Dear Melissa,

I’m a 3 retreat veteran. The last retreat gave me the final mind state that has capped any additional need. Sorry you missed the opportunity of the full 10 day retreat. What you describe is understandable. One day you may see it … see it all. I cannot say words here to break through to you if what you have tried so far has not helped you … which it looks like it has not. If a group people are trying to win a prize and only some gain that prize… some of the others may feel negative toward the whole process… no? Especially if they give up … and don’t give it the full term… if they don’t really try… if they even break the rules before they start… ?

How can you blame anyone but yourself if you are not going to be honest or sincere in your effort. Why did you even want to attend this retreat?

Keep doing the easy meditation practices that leave your monkey mind / ego in charge. Too bad your blithering self absorbed comments will discourage others… oh well. It is a good documentary on how not to do a Vipassana retreat. I agree. Thank you.

]]> By: Aryon http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340945 Aryon Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:50:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340945 Dear Melissa, I'm a 3 retreat veteran. The last retreat gave me the final mind state that has capped any additional need. Sorry you missed the opportunity of the full 10 day retreat. What you describe is understandable. One day you may see it ... see it all. I cannot say words here to break through to you if what you have tried so far has not helped you ... which it looks like it has not. If a group people are trying to win a prize and only some gain that prize... some of the others may feel negative toward the whole process... no? Especially if they give up ... and don't give it the full term... if they don't really try... if they even break the rules before they start... ? How can you blame anyone but yourself if you are not going to be honest or sincere in your effort. Why did you even want to attend this retreat? Keep doing the easy meditation practices that leave your monkey mind / ego in charge. Too bad your blithering self absorbed comments will discourage others... oh well. It is a good documentary on how not to do a Vipassana retreat. I agree. Thank you. Dear Melissa,

I’m a 3 retreat veteran. The last retreat gave me the final mind state that has capped any additional need. Sorry you missed the opportunity of the full 10 day retreat. What you describe is understandable. One day you may see it … see it all. I cannot say words here to break through to you if what you have tried so far has not helped you … which it looks like it has not. If a group people are trying to win a prize and only some gain that prize… some of the others may feel negative toward the whole process… no? Especially if they give up … and don’t give it the full term… if they don’t really try… if they even break the rules before they start… ?

How can you blame anyone but yourself if you are not going to be honest or sincere in your effort. Why did you even want to attend this retreat?

Keep doing the easy meditation practices that leave your monkey mind / ego in charge. Too bad your blithering self absorbed comments will discourage others… oh well. It is a good documentary on how not to do a Vipassana retreat. I agree. Thank you.

]]> By: 10-Day Vipassana Meditation Course — Part I « Reflections http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-322469 10-Day Vipassana Meditation Course — Part I « Reflections Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:30:14 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-322469 [...] Amit D Choudhary from Wisconsin, USA — Jeffrey Brooks from California, USA — Melissa Maples from Turkey — Harmanjit Singh from India — Discussion [...] [...] Amit D Choudhary from Wisconsin, USA — Jeffrey Brooks from California, USA — Melissa Maples from Turkey — Harmanjit Singh from India — Discussion [...]

]]> By: Marco http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-321016 Marco Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:53:41 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-321016 I have known about Goenka courses since the seventies when I used to live in India, I have done one myself and I personally met during my travels numerous people who have attended his courses during the years. I can understand that different people are suited to different approaches and when can raise criticism about almost anything but for some to say that there is some brainwashing going on or worse is a bit far fetched. Goenka does not encourage a following or for people to remain attached to him after the course. Everyone I know who has done the course has greatly benefited from it. Of course you can say that for some the discipline and intensity can be overwhelming at times but I would not venture as far as to say that it has a sinister purpose. Maybe the course at some venues is less well organized than others and its intensity might not suit evryone. Again to make an issue of the chanting in my view is almost comical. If a ten day intensive course of this kind is too much for some particularly if sometimes the voluntary teachers can seem a bit cold and aloof than go for something milder and more gradual. My only reservation about Goenka's vipassana is there should be better after care and follow up but there again there might not be enough volunteers for this task. I have known about Goenka courses since the seventies when I used to live in India, I have done one myself and I personally met during my travels numerous people who have attended his courses during the years. I can understand that different people are suited to different approaches and when can raise criticism about almost anything but for some to say that there is some brainwashing going on or worse is a bit far fetched. Goenka does not encourage a following or for people to remain attached to him after the course. Everyone I know who has done the course has greatly benefited from it. Of course you can say that for some the discipline and intensity can be overwhelming at times but I would not venture as far as to say that it has a sinister purpose. Maybe the course at some venues is less well organized than others and its intensity might not suit evryone. Again to make an issue of the chanting in my view is almost comical. If a ten day intensive course of this kind is too much for some particularly if sometimes the voluntary teachers can seem a bit cold and aloof than go for something milder and more gradual.

My only reservation about Goenka’s vipassana is there should be better after care and follow up but there again there might not be enough volunteers for this task.

]]> By: Marco http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340944 Marco Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:53:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340944 I have known about Goenka courses since the seventies when I used to live in India, I have done one myself and I personally met during my travels numerous people who have attended his courses during the years. I can understand that different people are suited to different approaches and when can raise criticism about almost anything but for some to say that there is some brainwashing going on or worse is a bit far fetched. Goenka does not encourage a following or for people to remain attached to him after the course. Everyone I know who has done the course has greatly benefited from it. Of course you can say that for some the discipline and intensity can be overwhelming at times but I would not venture as far as to say that it has a sinister purpose. Maybe the course at some venues is less well organized than others and its intensity might not suit evryone. Again to make an issue of the chanting in my view is almost comical. If a ten day intensive course of this kind is too much for some particularly if sometimes the voluntary teachers can seem a bit cold and aloof than go for something milder and more gradual. My only reservation about Goenka's vipassana is there should be better after care and follow up but there again there might not be enough volunteers for this task. I have known about Goenka courses since the seventies when I used to live in India, I have done one myself and I personally met during my travels numerous people who have attended his courses during the years. I can understand that different people are suited to different approaches and when can raise criticism about almost anything but for some to say that there is some brainwashing going on or worse is a bit far fetched. Goenka does not encourage a following or for people to remain attached to him after the course. Everyone I know who has done the course has greatly benefited from it. Of course you can say that for some the discipline and intensity can be overwhelming at times but I would not venture as far as to say that it has a sinister purpose. Maybe the course at some venues is less well organized than others and its intensity might not suit evryone. Again to make an issue of the chanting in my view is almost comical. If a ten day intensive course of this kind is too much for some particularly if sometimes the voluntary teachers can seem a bit cold and aloof than go for something milder and more gradual.

My only reservation about Goenka’s vipassana is there should be better after care and follow up but there again there might not be enough volunteers for this task.

]]> By: 1st timer http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-317123 1st timer Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:29:16 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-317123 I just completed a 10-day course last week. Initially the chanting got on my nerves but I grew to enjoy it. As for the course being entirely on CD and DVD, I thought that would be a problem for me, however, I actually ended up liking it. In my other retreats (and life) I often found myself behaving in ways to try and stand out from the crowd by becoming either the teacher's pet or a vocal adversary. I couldn't play that game with CD's and DVD's. The CD's became a neutral reflection that I could use to observe my reaction. Having a neutral daily routine to act as a backdrop, I could clearly see how my mind works to turn my life into a soap opera where I am the lead. I really enjoyed the course and felt that the food we had was probably too good. It gave me too much to look forward to while sitting. For me the retreat didn't really even start until I finally gave up trying to be somewhere else than on the cushion observing my boring body. I agree with the comment that by day 10, one has the tools to engage in solo practice. Someone else commented that the practice only focuses on the skin. Actually this is not the case. I had plenty of sensation in my legs and focused on that just fine. :) Actually, in later stages of practice. One is instructed to to observe sensations on the inside of the body as well. There was also a comment by Abhishek regarding focusing on single areas with concentration as opposed to just sitting and observing everything as it is. If I understood it correctly, an end goal of the technique as Goenka taught is to have the mental discipline and skill to observe all the sensations in the body simultaneously. By having this capacity, I can truly be in touch with "what is" at each moment. The technique simply cultivates this capacity to observe "what is". Without practice, my observation of "what is" tends to be clouded by the illusions that are most noisy at the moment. Thank you for reporting on your experience. I look forward to your other writing. Cheers. I just completed a 10-day course last week. Initially the chanting got on my nerves but I grew to enjoy it.

As for the course being entirely on CD and DVD, I thought that would be a problem for me, however, I actually ended up liking it. In my other retreats (and life) I often found myself behaving in ways to try and stand out from the crowd by becoming either the teacher’s pet or a vocal adversary. I couldn’t play that game with CD’s and DVD’s. The CD’s became a neutral reflection that I could use to observe my reaction. Having a neutral daily routine to act as a backdrop, I could clearly see how my mind works to turn my life into a soap opera where I am the lead.

I really enjoyed the course and felt that the food we had was probably too good. It gave me too much to look forward to while sitting. For me the retreat didn’t really even start until I finally gave up trying to be somewhere else than on the cushion observing my boring body.

I agree with the comment that by day 10, one has the tools to engage in solo practice.

Someone else commented that the practice only focuses on the skin. Actually this is not the case. I had plenty of sensation in my legs and focused on that just fine. :) Actually, in later stages of practice. One is instructed to to observe sensations on the inside of the body as well.

There was also a comment by Abhishek regarding focusing on single areas with concentration as opposed to just sitting and observing everything as it is. If I understood it correctly, an end goal of the technique as Goenka taught is to have the mental discipline and skill to observe all the sensations in the body simultaneously. By having this capacity, I can truly be in touch with “what is” at each moment. The technique simply cultivates this capacity to observe “what is”. Without practice, my observation of “what is” tends to be clouded by the illusions that are most noisy at the moment.

Thank you for reporting on your experience. I look forward to your other writing. Cheers.

]]> By: 1st timer http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340943 1st timer Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:29:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340943 I just completed a 10-day course last week. Initially the chanting got on my nerves but I grew to enjoy it. As for the course being entirely on CD and DVD, I thought that would be a problem for me, however, I actually ended up liking it. In my other retreats (and life) I often found myself behaving in ways to try and stand out from the crowd by becoming either the teacher's pet or a vocal adversary. I couldn't play that game with CD's and DVD's. The CD's became a neutral reflection that I could use to observe my reaction. Having a neutral daily routine to act as a backdrop, I could clearly see how my mind works to turn my life into a soap opera where I am the lead. I really enjoyed the course and felt that the food we had was probably too good. It gave me too much to look forward to while sitting. For me the retreat didn't really even start until I finally gave up trying to be somewhere else than on the cushion observing my boring body. I agree with the comment that by day 10, one has the tools to engage in solo practice. Someone else commented that the practice only focuses on the skin. Actually this is not the case. I had plenty of sensation in my legs and focused on that just fine. :) Actually, in later stages of practice. One is instructed to to observe sensations on the inside of the body as well. There was also a comment by Abhishek regarding focusing on single areas with concentration as opposed to just sitting and observing everything as it is. If I understood it correctly, an end goal of the technique as Goenka taught is to have the mental discipline and skill to observe all the sensations in the body simultaneously. By having this capacity, I can truly be in touch with "what is" at each moment. The technique simply cultivates this capacity to observe "what is". Without practice, my observation of "what is" tends to be clouded by the illusions that are most noisy at the moment. Thank you for reporting on your experience. I look forward to your other writing. Cheers. I just completed a 10-day course last week. Initially the chanting got on my nerves but I grew to enjoy it.

As for the course being entirely on CD and DVD, I thought that would be a problem for me, however, I actually ended up liking it. In my other retreats (and life) I often found myself behaving in ways to try and stand out from the crowd by becoming either the teacher’s pet or a vocal adversary. I couldn’t play that game with CD’s and DVD’s. The CD’s became a neutral reflection that I could use to observe my reaction. Having a neutral daily routine to act as a backdrop, I could clearly see how my mind works to turn my life into a soap opera where I am the lead.

I really enjoyed the course and felt that the food we had was probably too good. It gave me too much to look forward to while sitting. For me the retreat didn’t really even start until I finally gave up trying to be somewhere else than on the cushion observing my boring body.

I agree with the comment that by day 10, one has the tools to engage in solo practice.

Someone else commented that the practice only focuses on the skin. Actually this is not the case. I had plenty of sensation in my legs and focused on that just fine. :) Actually, in later stages of practice. One is instructed to to observe sensations on the inside of the body as well.

There was also a comment by Abhishek regarding focusing on single areas with concentration as opposed to just sitting and observing everything as it is. If I understood it correctly, an end goal of the technique as Goenka taught is to have the mental discipline and skill to observe all the sensations in the body simultaneously. By having this capacity, I can truly be in touch with “what is” at each moment. The technique simply cultivates this capacity to observe “what is”. Without practice, my observation of “what is” tends to be clouded by the illusions that are most noisy at the moment.

Thank you for reporting on your experience. I look forward to your other writing. Cheers.

]]> By: Shane http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-311683 Shane Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:32:33 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-311683 Sounds you like got a bum deal with the food. Lunch is one of the things that helps me through the whole process. I don't think where you went represents the norm in that regard. Also, turning off your electricity was not helpful of them. I've sat 2 courses, served 1 (I think the 2nd course I sat was even more trying that the first :). It's only in the last few months I've begun to use the technique every day. That's a big help. The instructions are laid out in that manner, IMHO, because it is most conducive to self reliance as you progress further along. But perhaps the method of introduction is too much too soon for some tastes? I was listeing to Shinzen Young's take on Vispassana at his website. On one of the downloads he mentions Goenka and he suggests the reason his intonations are like that on the audio tape is because he is in bliss or samadhi when he is speaking... or something to that effect, so his words drawl out. Whenever I hear the word cult used in association with these retreats it makes me wince a bit (not enough equanimity on my part yet:) Once you've done a retreat, you have all the info you need to proceed solo. You don't ever have to go back again, unless you wish to because the atmosphere is conducive. Sounds you like got a bum deal with the food. Lunch is one of the things that helps me through the whole process. I don’t think where you went represents the norm in that regard. Also, turning off your electricity was not helpful of them.
I’ve sat 2 courses, served 1 (I think the 2nd course I sat was even more trying that the first :) . It’s only in the last few months I’ve begun to use the technique every day. That’s a big help.
The instructions are laid out in that manner, IMHO, because it is most conducive to self reliance as you progress further along. But perhaps the method of introduction is too much too soon for some tastes?
I was listeing to Shinzen Young’s take on Vispassana at his website. On one of the downloads he mentions Goenka and he suggests the reason his intonations are like that on the audio tape is because he is in bliss or samadhi when he is speaking… or something to that effect, so his words drawl out.
Whenever I hear the word cult used in association with these retreats it makes me wince a bit (not enough equanimity on my part yet:) Once you’ve done a retreat, you have all the info you need to proceed solo. You don’t ever have to go back again, unless you wish to because the atmosphere is conducive.

]]> By: Shane http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340942 Shane Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:32:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340942 Sounds you like got a bum deal with the food. Lunch is one of the things that helps me through the whole process. I don't think where you went represents the norm in that regard. Also, turning off your electricity was not helpful of them. I've sat 2 courses, served 1 (I think the 2nd course I sat was even more trying that the first :). It's only in the last few months I've begun to use the technique every day. That's a big help. The instructions are laid out in that manner, IMHO, because it is most conducive to self reliance as you progress further along. But perhaps the method of introduction is too much too soon for some tastes? I was listeing to Shinzen Young's take on Vispassana at his website. On one of the downloads he mentions Goenka and he suggests the reason his intonations are like that on the audio tape is because he is in bliss or samadhi when he is speaking... or something to that effect, so his words drawl out. Whenever I hear the word cult used in association with these retreats it makes me wince a bit (not enough equanimity on my part yet:) Once you've done a retreat, you have all the info you need to proceed solo. You don't ever have to go back again, unless you wish to because the atmosphere is conducive. Sounds you like got a bum deal with the food. Lunch is one of the things that helps me through the whole process. I don’t think where you went represents the norm in that regard. Also, turning off your electricity was not helpful of them.
I’ve sat 2 courses, served 1 (I think the 2nd course I sat was even more trying that the first :) . It’s only in the last few months I’ve begun to use the technique every day. That’s a big help.
The instructions are laid out in that manner, IMHO, because it is most conducive to self reliance as you progress further along. But perhaps the method of introduction is too much too soon for some tastes?
I was listeing to Shinzen Young’s take on Vispassana at his website. On one of the downloads he mentions Goenka and he suggests the reason his intonations are like that on the audio tape is because he is in bliss or samadhi when he is speaking… or something to that effect, so his words drawl out.
Whenever I hear the word cult used in association with these retreats it makes me wince a bit (not enough equanimity on my part yet:) Once you’ve done a retreat, you have all the info you need to proceed solo. You don’t ever have to go back again, unless you wish to because the atmosphere is conducive.

]]> By: Fabrice http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-305579 Fabrice Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:52:40 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-305579 Some of you are talking like spoiled little children. Yes, I can agree that a Goenka retreat is a bit like a Vipassana boot camp. It was very hard for me. Nevertheless perhaps I had a better expectation of the course, in that I really didn't expect it to be easy! Why should it? When I say you are spoiled, I mean that you don't know what pain is. I have suffered generic mild anxiety and sometimes peaks of anxiety for so many years, when I went into a 10 day Vipassana retreay I was DESPERATE for a cure. There are so many things about the course that you can NOT understand even when it is over. It requires some trust either in yourself or your perception of Goenka. An example: I am pretty sure that the reduced sleeping times is to prevent meditators for entering too many dreams. I had two very vivid nightmares nonetheless. Dreams are times when you react WITHOUT that bloody equanimity that you learn at the course. Hence if you slept more you would be undoing the meditation work, reacting without awareness in your dreams (unless you were already very advanced in the art of lucid dreaming...). I could go on and on. These were among the best days I've spent in my life. Great rewards come with great challenges! I have continued to meditate 1h moring and evening for 5 months after that to a point where my anxiety started disappearing of my life. If you are worried I would recommend to get feedback on the particular centre. Certainly some are better than others. I would also certainly recommend to try it before or after the summer, as doing this in the cold of winter will of course make the whole experience more challenging. Some of you are talking like spoiled little children. Yes, I can agree that a Goenka retreat is a bit like a Vipassana boot camp. It was very hard for me. Nevertheless perhaps I had a better expectation of the course, in that I really didn’t expect it to be easy! Why should it? When I say you are spoiled, I mean that you don’t know what pain is. I have suffered generic mild anxiety and sometimes peaks of anxiety for so many years, when I went into a 10 day Vipassana retreay I was DESPERATE for a cure. There are so many things about the course that you can NOT understand even when it is over. It requires some trust either in yourself or your perception of Goenka. An example: I am pretty sure that the reduced sleeping times is to prevent meditators for entering too many dreams. I had two very vivid nightmares nonetheless. Dreams are times when you react WITHOUT that bloody equanimity that you learn at the course. Hence if you slept more you would be undoing the meditation work, reacting without awareness in your dreams (unless you were already very advanced in the art of lucid dreaming…). I could go on and on. These were among the best days I’ve spent in my life. Great rewards come with great challenges! I have continued to meditate 1h moring and evening for 5 months after that to a point where my anxiety started disappearing of my life. If you are worried I would recommend to get feedback on the particular centre. Certainly some are better than others. I would also certainly recommend to try it before or after the summer, as doing this in the cold of winter will of course make the whole experience more challenging.

]]> By: Fabrice http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340941 Fabrice Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:52:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340941 Some of you are talking like spoiled little children. Yes, I can agree that a Goenka retreat is a bit like a Vipassana boot camp. It was very hard for me. Nevertheless perhaps I had a better expectation of the course, in that I really didn't expect it to be easy! Why should it? When I say you are spoiled, I mean that you don't know what pain is. I have suffered generic mild anxiety and sometimes peaks of anxiety for so many years, when I went into a 10 day Vipassana retreay I was DESPERATE for a cure. There are so many things about the course that you can NOT understand even when it is over. It requires some trust either in yourself or your perception of Goenka. An example: I am pretty sure that the reduced sleeping times is to prevent meditators for entering too many dreams. I had two very vivid nightmares nonetheless. Dreams are times when you react WITHOUT that bloody equanimity that you learn at the course. Hence if you slept more you would be undoing the meditation work, reacting without awareness in your dreams (unless you were already very advanced in the art of lucid dreaming...). I could go on and on. These were among the best days I've spent in my life. Great rewards come with great challenges! I have continued to meditate 1h moring and evening for 5 months after that to a point where my anxiety started disappearing of my life. If you are worried I would recommend to get feedback on the particular centre. Certainly some are better than others. I would also certainly recommend to try it before or after the summer, as doing this in the cold of winter will of course make the whole experience more challenging. Some of you are talking like spoiled little children. Yes, I can agree that a Goenka retreat is a bit like a Vipassana boot camp. It was very hard for me. Nevertheless perhaps I had a better expectation of the course, in that I really didn’t expect it to be easy! Why should it? When I say you are spoiled, I mean that you don’t know what pain is. I have suffered generic mild anxiety and sometimes peaks of anxiety for so many years, when I went into a 10 day Vipassana retreay I was DESPERATE for a cure. There are so many things about the course that you can NOT understand even when it is over. It requires some trust either in yourself or your perception of Goenka. An example: I am pretty sure that the reduced sleeping times is to prevent meditators for entering too many dreams. I had two very vivid nightmares nonetheless. Dreams are times when you react WITHOUT that bloody equanimity that you learn at the course. Hence if you slept more you would be undoing the meditation work, reacting without awareness in your dreams (unless you were already very advanced in the art of lucid dreaming…). I could go on and on. These were among the best days I’ve spent in my life. Great rewards come with great challenges! I have continued to meditate 1h moring and evening for 5 months after that to a point where my anxiety started disappearing of my life. If you are worried I would recommend to get feedback on the particular centre. Certainly some are better than others. I would also certainly recommend to try it before or after the summer, as doing this in the cold of winter will of course make the whole experience more challenging.

]]> By: walkthepath http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-299541 walkthepath Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:59:14 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-299541 "Hard it is to train the mind, which goes where it likes and does what it wants. But a trained mind brings health and happiness. The wise can direct their thoughts, subtle and elusive, wherever they choose: a trained mind brings health and happiness." - the Buddha Meditation is hard in the beginning but for every step one takes on the path there are benefits. Serving was the most fulfilling experience of my life. Read about my Vipassana meditation experiences (of S.N. Goenka's tradition) on my blog: walkthepath.wordpress.com “Hard it is to train the mind, which goes where it likes and does what it wants. But a trained mind brings health and happiness. The wise can direct their thoughts, subtle and elusive, wherever they choose: a trained mind brings health and happiness.” – the Buddha

Meditation is hard in the beginning but for every step one takes on the path there are benefits. Serving was the most fulfilling experience of my life.

Read about my Vipassana meditation experiences (of S.N. Goenka’s tradition) on my blog: walkthepath.wordpress.com

]]> By: walkthepath http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340940 walkthepath Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:59:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340940 "Hard it is to train the mind, which goes where it likes and does what it wants. But a trained mind brings health and happiness. The wise can direct their thoughts, subtle and elusive, wherever they choose: a trained mind brings health and happiness." - the Buddha Meditation is hard in the beginning but for every step one takes on the path there are benefits. Serving was the most fulfilling experience of my life. Read about my Vipassana meditation experiences (of S.N. Goenka's tradition) on my blog: walkthepath.wordpress.com “Hard it is to train the mind, which goes where it likes and does what it wants. But a trained mind brings health and happiness. The wise can direct their thoughts, subtle and elusive, wherever they choose: a trained mind brings health and happiness.” – the Buddha

Meditation is hard in the beginning but for every step one takes on the path there are benefits. Serving was the most fulfilling experience of my life.

Read about my Vipassana meditation experiences (of S.N. Goenka’s tradition) on my blog: walkthepath.wordpress.com

]]> By: Melissa http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-249344 Melissa Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:18:45 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-249344 @Empyran: Dude, pass that over here so I can smoke some, too. @Empyran: Dude, pass that over here so I can smoke some, too.

]]> By: Melissa http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340939 Melissa Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:18:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340939 @Empyran: Dude, pass that over here so I can smoke some, too. @Empyran: Dude, pass that over here so I can smoke some, too.

]]> By: Empyrean http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-249294 Empyrean Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:56:39 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-249294 All your words, All your conceptions are purely Illusions You, Your self, is pure Illusions all your concepts, perceptions and deductions are pure illusions You dont exist... All your words, All your conceptions are purely Illusions
You, Your self, is pure Illusions

all your concepts, perceptions and deductions are pure illusions

You dont exist…

]]> By: Empyrean http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340938 Empyrean Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:56:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340938 All your words, All your conceptions are purely Illusions You, Your self, is pure Illusions all your concepts, perceptions and deductions are pure illusions You dont exist... All your words, All your conceptions are purely Illusions
You, Your self, is pure Illusions

all your concepts, perceptions and deductions are pure illusions

You dont exist…

]]> By: Abhishek http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-242115 Abhishek Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:10:36 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-242115 I just came back from a 10-day Vipassana course held in Oregon and although I survived 10 days, I couldn't stand one more day so I left. Here are my thoughts: - The course is actually 12 days (11-nights) and not 10 days as they claim. THERE IS NO DINNER!! - When I realized that the technique meant exclusive focus on the skin sensations, I was sure that Buddha could not have said so. But since they keep you out of touch with the world, there was no way for me to confirm that. I read the Satipatthana sutra after coming back http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html and indeed Buddha has asked to focus on 'what is' because as K says, any exclusivity means keeping the observer in the play whereas the whole point is to dissolve it! - The course was run quite mechanically and the teachers were quite non-knowledgeable about even simple questions such as "Where is all this leading to - after I dissolve the whole body then what? How do I dissolve the 'I'?" They sat on higher platform than the students and were running the show under the maintaining a condescending attitude towards students who were made to sit below their feet level while asking questions - The singing is really awful and coarse, very hard to stand. If the organization has so much money, why not hire some professional singers and make the whole thing sound worthwhile? My theory is that Goenka actually wanted to be a singer but no-body would listen to him so he came up with this Vipassana thing so that his singing 'talent' can be demonstrated infront of unwitting people :) - The teaching itself starts becoming more and more authoritative as the days go by and combined with the low intake of food and lost connection of the world, it almost makes one submissive to the whole thing We had 8 boys and 18 girls as new students and by the end of the course only 2 boys remained although 17 girls continued - demonstrating much more patience than men. I left on the 10th day after I realized there is going to be nothing more than repetition of the same thing and there was no way I could stand more 'chanting'. The teachers tried to use belitting tactics to prevent that from happening- saying they won't let me use their retreat centers for 3 day courses etc but who wants to do that anyway? :) I had done a fair amount of research on the internet before going there but unfortunately I had not come across http://harmanjit.googlepages.com/vipassana-critique.html#tthFtNtABF which very systematically describes the whole thing. This article helped me understand many fine points which caused me frustration while I was there but could not point my finger to them. If I would have read it, I would have probably not gone to the course because exclusive awareness can certainly lead nowhere. In summary, I found the experience nice in terms of being able to spend nine quiet days with myself and practising my own meditation of complete awareness instead of exclusive awareness on the skin, and just being with nature (because we were made to camp in tents on a lawn). I think that although Goenka's technique, which is a distorted version of what the Buddha actually said, might help some people calm their mind to some extent, it will certainly fail in leading even one person to enlightenment. And Goenka certainly is unelightened (or was so in the 1991 tapes that were played), so he has not right to teach or even claim command over a technique he himself does not understand. It almost seems like he got rid of it ego partly when he was with his teacher, but then it entered through the back door and is now spreading ignorance throughout the world. :) I would strongly suggest avoiding this torture and imprisonment for 10 days and try your luck elsewhere :) I just came back from a 10-day Vipassana course held in Oregon and although I survived 10 days, I couldn’t stand one more day so I left. Here are my thoughts:

- The course is actually 12 days (11-nights) and not 10 days as they claim. THERE IS NO DINNER!!

- When I realized that the technique meant exclusive focus on the skin sensations, I was sure that Buddha could not have said so. But since they keep you out of touch with the world, there was no way for me to confirm that. I read the Satipatthana sutra after coming back
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html and indeed Buddha has asked to focus on ‘what is’ because as K says, any exclusivity means keeping the observer in the play whereas the whole point is to dissolve it!

- The course was run quite mechanically and the teachers were quite non-knowledgeable about even simple questions such as “Where is all this leading to – after I dissolve the whole body then what? How do I dissolve the ‘I’?” They sat on higher platform than the students and were running the show under the maintaining a condescending attitude towards students who were made to sit below their feet level while asking questions

- The singing is really awful and coarse, very hard to stand. If the organization has so much money, why not hire some professional singers and make the whole thing sound worthwhile? My theory is that Goenka actually wanted to be a singer but no-body would listen to him so he came up with this Vipassana thing so that his singing ‘talent’ can be demonstrated infront of unwitting people :)

- The teaching itself starts becoming more and more authoritative as the days go by and combined with the low intake of food and lost connection of the world, it almost makes one submissive to the whole thing

We had 8 boys and 18 girls as new students and by the end of the course only 2 boys remained although 17 girls continued – demonstrating much more patience than men. I left on the 10th day after I realized there is going to be nothing more than repetition of the same thing and there was no way I could stand more ‘chanting’. The teachers tried to use belitting tactics to prevent that from happening- saying they won’t let me use their retreat centers for 3 day courses etc but who wants to do that anyway? :)

I had done a fair amount of research on the internet before going there but unfortunately I had not come across http://harmanjit.googlepages.com/vipassana-critique.html#tthFtNtABF which very systematically describes the whole thing. This article helped me understand many fine points which caused me frustration while I was there but could not point my finger to them.
If I would have read it, I would have probably not gone to the course because exclusive awareness can certainly lead nowhere.

In summary, I found the experience nice in terms of being able to spend nine quiet days with myself and practising my own meditation of complete awareness instead of exclusive awareness on the skin, and just being with nature (because we were made to camp in tents on a lawn).

I think that although Goenka’s technique, which is a distorted version of what the Buddha actually said, might help some people calm their mind to some extent, it will certainly fail in leading even one person to enlightenment. And Goenka certainly is unelightened (or was so in the 1991 tapes that were played), so he has not right to teach or even claim command over a technique he himself does not understand. It almost seems like he got rid of it ego partly when he was with his teacher, but then it entered through the back door and is now spreading ignorance throughout the world. :)

I would strongly suggest avoiding this torture and imprisonment for 10 days and try your luck elsewhere :)

]]> By: Abhishek http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-340937 Abhishek Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:10:00 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-340937 I just came back from a 10-day Vipassana course held in Oregon and although I survived 10 days, I couldn't stand one more day so I left. Here are my thoughts: - The course is actually 12 days (11-nights) and not 10 days as they claim. THERE IS NO DINNER!! - When I realized that the technique meant exclusive focus on the skin sensations, I was sure that Buddha could not have said so. But since they keep you out of touch with the world, there was no way for me to confirm that. I read the Satipatthana sutra after coming back http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html and indeed Buddha has asked to focus on 'what is' because as K says, any exclusivity means keeping the observer in the play whereas the whole point is to dissolve it! - The course was run quite mechanically and the teachers were quite non-knowledgeable about even simple questions such as "Where is all this leading to - after I dissolve the whole body then what? How do I dissolve the 'I'?" They sat on higher platform than the students and were running the show under the maintaining a condescending attitude towards students who were made to sit below their feet level while asking questions - The singing is really awful and coarse, very hard to stand. If the organization has so much money, why not hire some professional singers and make the whole thing sound worthwhile? My theory is that Goenka actually wanted to be a singer but no-body would listen to him so he came up with this Vipassana thing so that his singing 'talent' can be demonstrated infront of unwitting people :) - The teaching itself starts becoming more and more authoritative as the days go by and combined with the low intake of food and lost connection of the world, it almost makes one submissive to the whole thing We had 8 boys and 18 girls as new students and by the end of the course only 2 boys remained although 17 girls continued - demonstrating much more patience than men. I left on the 10th day after I realized there is going to be nothing more than repetition of the same thing and there was no way I could stand more 'chanting'. The teachers tried to use belitting tactics to prevent that from happening- saying they won't let me use their retreat centers for 3 day courses etc but who wants to do that anyway? :) I had done a fair amount of research on the internet before going there but unfortunately I had not come across http://harmanjit.googlepages.com/vipassana-critique.html#tthFtNtABF which very systematically describes the whole thing. This article helped me understand many fine points which caused me frustration while I was there but could not point my finger to them. If I would have read it, I would have probably not gone to the course because exclusive awareness can certainly lead nowhere. In summary, I found the experience nice in terms of being able to spend nine quiet days with myself and practising my own meditation of complete awareness instead of exclusive awareness on the skin, and just being with nature (because we were made to camp in tents on a lawn). I think that although Goenka's technique, which is a distorted version of what the Buddha actually said, might help some people calm their mind to some extent, it will certainly fail in leading even one person to enlightenment. And Goenka certainly is unelightened (or was so in the 1991 tapes that were played), so he has not right to teach or even claim command over a technique he himself does not understand. It almost seems like he got rid of it ego partly when he was with his teacher, but then it entered through the back door and is now spreading ignorance throughout the world. :) I would strongly suggest avoiding this torture and imprisonment for 10 days and try your luck elsewhere :) I just came back from a 10-day Vipassana course held in Oregon and although I survived 10 days, I couldn’t stand one more day so I left. Here are my thoughts:

- The course is actually 12 days (11-nights) and not 10 days as they claim. THERE IS NO DINNER!!

- When I realized that the technique meant exclusive focus on the skin sensations, I was sure that Buddha could not have said so. But since they keep you out of touch with the world, there was no way for me to confirm that. I read the Satipatthana sutra after coming back
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html and indeed Buddha has asked to focus on ‘what is’ because as K says, any exclusivity means keeping the observer in the play whereas the whole point is to dissolve it!

- The course was run quite mechanically and the teachers were quite non-knowledgeable about even simple questions such as “Where is all this leading to – after I dissolve the whole body then what? How do I dissolve the ‘I’?” They sat on higher platform than the students and were running the show under the maintaining a condescending attitude towards students who were made to sit below their feet level while asking questions

- The singing is really awful and coarse, very hard to stand. If the organization has so much money, why not hire some professional singers and make the whole thing sound worthwhile? My theory is that Goenka actually wanted to be a singer but no-body would listen to him so he came up with this Vipassana thing so that his singing ‘talent’ can be demonstrated infront of unwitting people :)

- The teaching itself starts becoming more and more authoritative as the days go by and combined with the low intake of food and lost connection of the world, it almost makes one submissive to the whole thing

We had 8 boys and 18 girls as new students and by the end of the course only 2 boys remained although 17 girls continued – demonstrating much more patience than men. I left on the 10th day after I realized there is going to be nothing more than repetition of the same thing and there was no way I could stand more ‘chanting’. The teachers tried to use belitting tactics to prevent that from happening- saying they won’t let me use their retreat centers for 3 day courses etc but who wants to do that anyway? :)

I had done a fair amount of research on the internet before going there but unfortunately I had not come across http://harmanjit.googlepages.com/vipassana-critique.html#tthFtNtABF which very systematically describes the whole thing. This article helped me understand many fine points which caused me frustration while I was there but could not point my finger to them.
If I would have read it, I would have probably not gone to the course because exclusive awareness can certainly lead nowhere.

In summary, I found the experience nice in terms of being able to spend nine quiet days with myself and practising my own meditation of complete awareness instead of exclusive awareness on the skin, and just being with nature (because we were made to camp in tents on a lawn).

I think that although Goenka’s technique, which is a distorted version of what the Buddha actually said, might help some people calm their mind to some extent, it will certainly fail in leading even one person to enlightenment. And Goenka certainly is unelightened (or was so in the 1991 tapes that were played), so he has not right to teach or even claim command over a technique he himself does not understand. It almost seems like he got rid of it ego partly when he was with his teacher, but then it entered through the back door and is now spreading ignorance throughout the world. :)

I would strongly suggest avoiding this torture and imprisonment for 10 days and try your luck elsewhere :)

]]> By: Melissa http://melissamaples.com/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/comment-page-2/#comment-173282 Melissa Wed, 09 Apr 2008 05:03:14 +0000 http://melissamaples.com/2007/10/24/how-not-to-do-a-goenka-vipassana-retreat-in-15000-words-or-less/#comment-173282 @dhammagarden I too, still practice Vipassana, and it has changed my life for the better... I'm just not sure about the Goenka retreats (or at least the one I went to). Thank you for your kind comment. @dhammagarden I too, still practice Vipassana, and it has changed my life for the better… I’m just not sure about the Goenka retreats (or at least the one I went to).

Thank you for your kind comment.

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