At least once a week I get asked some variation on this question: what’s it like to live in an Arab country? Answer: I don’t know. I’ve never lived in an Arab country. But wait, Turks are Arabs, right?
No, that couldn’t be more wrong. But it seems to be such a common misconception that I thought I’d take a few minutes here to clarify a few points that often leave people confused:
- Turkey is in the Middle East, and Middle East countries are by definition Arab. I know a lot of Turks who would disagree with the first part, and a lot of Israelis who would disagree with the second part. Not all Middle East countries are Arab, and many Turks think of Turkey as identifying more with Europe and other parts of Asia in terms of political and cultural likeness. I personally think of Turkey as a bridge between Europe and Asia, but there’s a lot of room for debate on that subject.
- Even if you don’t call it a Middle Eastern country, Turkey is still adjacent to all those Arab countries, and Turks are mostly Muslim, so they must be pretty much the same as Arabs. That’s like saying that Germans must be French because their country is adjacent to France and they’re Christian just like the French. Turks are, ethnically speaking, Ural-Altaic peoples, more closely related to Mongols and Chinese than to Arabs. In fact, historically the line between “Mongolian” and “Turkish” is rather blurred. In Western schoolbooks we tend to identify Genghis Khan and Attila The Hun as Mongols; most Turks see those figures as Turkish or at the very least, Turkic (and though Turkic they certainly are, “Turkish” is a more dynamic term and may or may not apply).
- Like all Middle Eastern peoples, Turks speak Arabic, so that makes them Arab. This is just flat-out wrong. Although it’s doubtless that some Turks do know how to speak Arabic, the language of the Turkish people is, oddly enough, Turkish. Turkish (wiki) is an Altaic language, which linguistically has more in common with Korean or Japanese than it does with Arabic. Arabic is a Semitic language, more closely related to Hebrew and Aramaic (wiki), and having very little to do with any Altaic language, much less any Turkic one. I think where the confusion lies with this is that most Turks are Muslim, and Arabic is the language of Islam, and many people confuse religion with ethnicity. Also, up until 1928 most Turkish speakers wrote their language using Ottoman script, which to an untrained eye looks indistinguishable from Arabic. But in modern times Turkish is written using the Latin alphabet, albeit with a few modified characters.
- Turks look like Arabs, so it’s an easy mistake to make. Have a look at the photo above, taken in eastern Turkey by Nuri Bilge Ceylan. Do those men look Arab to you? Of course not. And even within the group, their facial features cover a range from European all the way to East Asian. The truth is, Turks vary in appearance greatly throughout the country— some have fair skin and light hair, others have dark skin and light eyes, and still others have features like those found in Altaic peoples thousands of kilometres east of Turkey. That’s not to say that some Turks don’t resemble some Arabs, but then again I know a few Germans whom one might mistake for French at a glance. It doesn’t mean it’s okay to lump them all together.
As a bit of a side anecdote, by coincidence I stumbled upon a forum a few weeks ago (sorry, I can’t remember the url) where a Korean man was making some very interesting points about ethnicity versus cultural development in Asia. At one point he was giving some narrative background about Turkic languages and Turkic peoples, and then someone else in the conversation used the term “Central Asia,” which set the Korean guy off on a huge discourse about how the whole concept of “Central Asia” was an invention by the Russians to try to solidify the Soviet hold on those areas, and that if it weren’t for the tremendous Soviet pressure on those nations to conform to Russian culture and language, i.e. if they’d all been left to progress “naturally,” then we’d probably now be referring to that entire gigantic region as the United Nations of Turkistan. Someone then asked the guy exactly where he would draw the borders of this theoretical Turkistan, and the Korean man suggested that even Korea and Japan wouldn’t be out of the question. He mentioned that when he and his family had visited eastern Turkey, they often got mistaken for Turkish because their facial structure is so similar to the Turks living in that area.
This got me to thinking about my own observations over the past few months, starting back when I discovered the Azerbaijani television network and was shocked to hear that the spoken language would be nearly indistinguishable from Turkish if it weren’t for those Russian-sounding words they throw in from time to time. And they’re starting to use a Roman script like we do, but when they were Soviet they were forced to use a Cyrillic script, and in addition some of them still use an Arabic-based script as well. But the spoken Azeri language is pretty much like Turkish (I imagine that this is much like the minor differences between spoken Norwegian and spoken Swedish). Same goes for Kazakh, and Turkmen, and Uzbek— Emirhan says he can understand people in all those languages, with some minor vocabulary adjustments.
So that got me thinking about how far east the similarities would carry, and I went to YouTube and started watching some Mongolian programming… unbelievable. I expected it to sound something like my stereotype of Mandarin Chinese, but it doesn’t— rather it sounds a lot like Turkish with some heavy Russian influences (some of the grammatical structures are Indo-European rather than Ural-Altaic, but only some). I was shocked at how much I understood. Also, one of my friends who comes from the western part of China speaks a regional Chinese dialect that she claims is “so close to Turkish, it’s scary.” She said she’s actually had small conversations with Turks and been able to hobble along with basic to moderate understanding.
I don’t know much Korean or Japanese, but Emirhan said Japanese people who speak Turkish almost never have a strong foreign accent. They sound like Turks. And the few Japanese people I’ve met here who learned Turkish have all said that it was an easy language for them to learn, and the pronunciations came naturally. I don’t know any Koreans in Turkey, so I can’t comment on that, but I know what the guy on the forum means when he says that some Koreans and some eastern Turks get mistaken for one another. And it’s possible that you could throw a couple of Mongolians into the picture and still be unsure as to who comes from where. This is one of the reasons why Turks get so annoyed when Westerners assume that “Turkish” and “Arab” are the same thing. Turks have more in common with the East Asians than they do with the Arabs. The only thing Turks ever shared with Arabia was a writing system, and even that’s now long gone, as it never really suited the Turkish language well anyway.
It all gets even more spooky when I think back to a year or so ago when I thought Emirhan was pulling my leg about this supposed theory that Native Americans are Turkic, and then when I did the research to back up my claim that he was talking nonsense, I discovered instead that in several ancient Native American languages, the word for “sky” is the same as the Turkish word, and the words for many of the colours are the same as in Turkish, and so on. Apparently a lot of experts in the field agree that these Americans also orginate from somewhere in the United Nations of Turkistan. And then there are the similarities in some of the faces— again with the high cheekbones and the slightly angled rectangular eyes. Of course I can’t say for sure that that’s where Native Americans came from, but certainly it’s an interesting theory.
So back to my original point, if you were unsure before about whether Turkey was an Arab country, hopefully I’ve cleared that up. But even if you were familiar with Turkish ethnicity before now, perhaps it’s still worth a look at some online resources if you’re curious to learn more about the great mystery of these highly nomadic and charismatic people. I, for one, am always on the lookout for new clues, but I’m not kidding myself— this is a puzzle that will never be completely solved.
Edit, May 2009: I’m closing comments on this post, just because it’s been almost two years, and I think everything that needs to be said has been said. We’re now to the point where people are either starting to repeat what others have said, or are going off-topic. I’ve deleted some of the off-topic comments where it was obvious that certain contributors were using this thread as a place to voice their propaganda, which may have its place elsewhere, but is irrelevant here. The point of this article was to clear up misconceptions about race, not to start a flame war about which race is better than the others. So… yeah, comments closed.
Great article Melissa. I knew that Turks weren’t Arabs (just like Iranians aren’t Arab either) but I didn’t know the close relationship between countries like Korea and Japan with Turks. Your point about a possible connection between Turks and Native Americans brings to mind something I had heard in regards to a link between Chinese and Aztec and Mayan cultures because of similarities in culture, language and lore. Check out Evidence of the Chinese Fleets visiting Mexico.
So, the connection could be there from the Turks — Mongol — Chinese — Mexican — Native American. Pretty neat if you think about it.
Thanks for enlightening me further about Turkish roots.
Great article Melissa. I knew that Turks weren’t Arabs (just like Iranians aren’t Arab either) but I didn’t know the close relationship between countries like Korea and Japan with Turks. Your point about a possible connection between Turks and Native Americans brings to mind something I had heard in regards to a link between Chinese and Aztec and Mayan cultures because of similarities in culture, language and lore. Check out Evidence of the Chinese Fleets visiting Mexico.
So, the connection could be there from the Turks — Mongol — Chinese — Mexican — Native American. Pretty neat if you think about it.
Thanks for enlightening me further about Turkish roots.
Great article melissa
Great article melissa
Thanks Ellen, and thanks for the link – I’m forever curious about where Native Americans come from, mostly just because it’s such an enigmatic culture, but also because in my own family there are hints of Native American traits, so I wonder if part of that history is also part of my history.
You make a good point about Iranians – an Iranian friend of mine who lives here in Antalya says that even the Turks think he’s Arab when they see his Farsi handwriting, and Turks of all people should know better. But a lot of people make assumptions based on language, and of course written Farsi and written Arabic look the same to people illiterate in those languages. But of course people would never make that assumption with two different languages written in the Latin alphabet.
Anyway, I’m sure we could go on about this all day – thanks for reading, and I’ll see you twitterside.
Thanks Ellen, and thanks for the link – I’m forever curious about where Native Americans come from, mostly just because it’s such an enigmatic culture, but also because in my own family there are hints of Native American traits, so I wonder if part of that history is also part of my history.
You make a good point about Iranians – an Iranian friend of mine who lives here in Antalya says that even the Turks think he’s Arab when they see his Farsi handwriting, and Turks of all people should know better. But a lot of people make assumptions based on language, and of course written Farsi and written Arabic look the same to people illiterate in those languages. But of course people would never make that assumption with two different languages written in the Latin alphabet.
Anyway, I’m sure we could go on about this all day – thanks for reading, and I’ll see you twitterside.
Very good article. Good research and solid logic
Very good article. Good research and solid logic
I loved reading this article Melissa.
Just want to make a point that Turks are not Arabs, but also neither are Iranians. They like to be referred to as Persians and not Arab derivative.
Native Americans who have ottoman ancestary are called ‘ melungeons’.
They have a web site for those interested:-
http://www.melungeons.com/
Cheers
I loved reading this article Melissa.
Just want to make a point that Turks are not Arabs, but also neither are Iranians. They like to be referred to as Persians and not Arab derivative.
Native Americans who have ottoman ancestary are called ‘ melungeons’.
They have a web site for those interested:-
http://www.melungeons.com/
Cheers
@Fred and Özgür: thank you both very much. 😀
@Fred and Özgür: thank you both very much. 😀
@Ardent: yeah, Ellen and I were just talking about the Persian thing up in the first two comments… I didn’t know about this term “Melungeons,” thanks for the link – I will certainly check that site out.
@Ardent: yeah, Ellen and I were just talking about the Persian thing up in the first two comments… I didn’t know about this term “Melungeons,” thanks for the link – I will certainly check that site out.
Thanks for the entry.
Some clarifications:
1. Your girl friend from the north-western Chinese region of East Turkistan is possibly speaking Uyghur, which is not a Chinese dialect but a Turkic language. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_language
2. If your boy friend is speaking to the Tajiks in their language either he speaks Persian or the Tajiks have switched to Turkish.
3. Languages do not recognize political boundaries, nor they are directly related to ethnicity, visit the northern parts of Syria and you will see that most Armenians of the area (continue) speak(ing) Turkish, just as they did in the Ottoman times.
Best wishes,
Thanks for the entry.
Some clarifications:
1. Your girl friend from the north-western Chinese region of East Turkistan is possibly speaking Uyghur, which is not a Chinese dialect but a Turkic language. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_language
2. If your boy friend is speaking to the Tajiks in their language either he speaks Persian or the Tajiks have switched to Turkish.
3. Languages do not recognize political boundaries, nor they are directly related to ethnicity, visit the northern parts of Syria and you will see that most Armenians of the area (continue) speak(ing) Turkish, just as they did in the Ottoman times.
Best wishes,
@Ayhan:
1. I meant “Chinese dialect” in the sense of “a dialect that some Chinese people speak” rather than “a dialect of a Chinese language.” I can’t remember what language my friend said it was, so you might be right about Uyghur.
2. Or I may have remembered wrong and mistakenly substituted Tajik for another language. I’ll verify with Emirhan which languages he said it was and correct myself if necessary. I would certainly think that if someone had it wrong it would have been me rather than him.
3. I don’t recall saying that languages recognise those boundaries – in fact I mentioned that there are some Turks who speak Arabic. I agree with your statement here, but I don’t see that I implied disagreement above.
On a side note – perhaps I’m mistaken (wouldn’t be the first time; sometimes it’s difficult to read intent on the internet), but your comments, both to me and to others, seem to have a sarcastic, accusatory, almost condescending tone to them. Are you here because you’re trying to prove something? I mean, I’m cool if you want to stick around and play Mr. Smart Guy, and I definitely don’t mind being corrected if I say something in error, but seeing as this blog is supposed to be at least as much about fun as it is about information… I’m just wondering if you’re enjoying yourself here, or if there’s some other agenda. I apologise if I’ve pegged you wrong – I have been guilty before of misreading tone in this context. It just seems like you’re very serious about making sure everyone is kept up to standard, like it’s your job to be the blog content police instead of just relaxing and enjoying open conversation. Certainly you’re not the first person to correct me here (everyone is welcome to of course), but you’re definitely the most earnest about it.
Sorry, I’m not trying to have a laugh at your expense, I think I’m just trying to understand your writing style a bit better. Given your current tone I feel like you’re just lying in wait for me or others to say something incorrect so that you can pounce. Have I got you wrong?
@Ayhan:
1. I meant “Chinese dialect” in the sense of “a dialect that some Chinese people speak” rather than “a dialect of a Chinese language.” I can’t remember what language my friend said it was, so you might be right about Uyghur.
2. Or I may have remembered wrong and mistakenly substituted Tajik for another language. I’ll verify with Emirhan which languages he said it was and correct myself if necessary. I would certainly think that if someone had it wrong it would have been me rather than him.
3. I don’t recall saying that languages recognise those boundaries – in fact I mentioned that there are some Turks who speak Arabic. I agree with your statement here, but I don’t see that I implied disagreement above.
On a side note – perhaps I’m mistaken (wouldn’t be the first time; sometimes it’s difficult to read intent on the internet), but your comments, both to me and to others, seem to have a sarcastic, accusatory, almost condescending tone to them. Are you here because you’re trying to prove something? I mean, I’m cool if you want to stick around and play Mr. Smart Guy, and I definitely don’t mind being corrected if I say something in error, but seeing as this blog is supposed to be at least as much about fun as it is about information… I’m just wondering if you’re enjoying yourself here, or if there’s some other agenda. I apologise if I’ve pegged you wrong – I have been guilty before of misreading tone in this context. It just seems like you’re very serious about making sure everyone is kept up to standard, like it’s your job to be the blog content police instead of just relaxing and enjoying open conversation. Certainly you’re not the first person to correct me here (everyone is welcome to of course), but you’re definitely the most earnest about it.
Sorry, I’m not trying to have a laugh at your expense, I think I’m just trying to understand your writing style a bit better. Given your current tone I feel like you’re just lying in wait for me or others to say something incorrect so that you can pounce. Have I got you wrong?
Hi Melissa,
Is there any chance of increasing the font size in your comments section. Your blog has the smallest font size that I have ever seen in any comments section. By increasing the size, it will make each comment easier and more pleasurable to read.
Thanks
Hi Melissa,
Is there any chance of increasing the font size in your comments section. Your blog has the smallest font size that I have ever seen in any comments section. By increasing the size, it will make each comment easier and more pleasurable to read.
Thanks
Sure thing, Ardent, no problem – I’ll change it right now, in fact. Let me know if the new size is better.
I do wonder if it isn’t something about your display, though, because on my computer here and on my boyfriend’s computer at work (mine is Mac, his is Windows), the comments font size looks fine. Nonetheless, it’s important that everyone who wants to read the comments can do so easily, so it doesn’t hurt to have the font size bigger (within reason, of course :-D).
Sure thing, Ardent, no problem – I’ll change it right now, in fact. Let me know if the new size is better.
I do wonder if it isn’t something about your display, though, because on my computer here and on my boyfriend’s computer at work (mine is Mac, his is Windows), the comments font size looks fine. Nonetheless, it’s important that everyone who wants to read the comments can do so easily, so it doesn’t hurt to have the font size bigger (within reason, of course :-D).
Actually Ardent, you’re right, it did need to be bigger. It looks a lot better now and is easier to read, so thanks for pointing that out. I guess I’d just gotten used to the way it looked, if you know what I mean.
Actually Ardent, you’re right, it did need to be bigger. It looks a lot better now and is easier to read, so thanks for pointing that out. I guess I’d just gotten used to the way it looked, if you know what I mean.
Yes, you have.
All the same, I must thank you because you helped me to see I suffer what they call déformation professionnelle.
Anyhow, sorry to disturb you.
You will not receive any more comments from my side.
Enjoy Turkey.
Yes, you have.
All the same, I must thank you because you helped me to see I suffer what they call déformation professionnelle.
Anyhow, sorry to disturb you.
You will not receive any more comments from my side.
Enjoy Turkey.
Heya. Just wanted to drop by and thank you for a great article. I love reading/learning about stuff like this.
.g
Heya. Just wanted to drop by and thank you for a great article. I love reading/learning about stuff like this.
.g
@Ayhan: It makes me laugh, how deadly serious you are about everything (or at least everything here, i.e. just about the least serious blog in the universe). And now you’ve decided to throw your toys out of the sandbox and go home, which… I guess I can’t do anything about how you’re conditioned to react to things. I wasn’t trying to drive you away. Quite the opposite, actually – I was trying to get you to join in some of the fun and frivolity rather than just feeling like you have to analyse and pick things apart. I still welcome you to join us.
In any case, I hope there’s someone or something out there that can make you relax and smile a bit… sorry my blog didn’t do that for you. I guess no one con have a 100% success rate. Best of luck to you!
@Ayhan: It makes me laugh, how deadly serious you are about everything (or at least everything here, i.e. just about the least serious blog in the universe). And now you’ve decided to throw your toys out of the sandbox and go home, which… I guess I can’t do anything about how you’re conditioned to react to things. I wasn’t trying to drive you away. Quite the opposite, actually – I was trying to get you to join in some of the fun and frivolity rather than just feeling like you have to analyse and pick things apart. I still welcome you to join us.
In any case, I hope there’s someone or something out there that can make you relax and smile a bit… sorry my blog didn’t do that for you. I guess no one con have a 100% success rate. Best of luck to you!
@JustG: Thanks very much for stopping by, glad you enjoyed it. Love your flickr, by the way – like a snapshot of your life. Excellent.
@JustG: Thanks very much for stopping by, glad you enjoyed it. Love your flickr, by the way – like a snapshot of your life. Excellent.
A great article Melissa. Thanks.
And to add to the fray: There’s a theory that the Ashkenazi Jews may be the descendants of Khazars, a semi-nomadic Turkic people who flourished in the 7th century AD in the Northern Caucasus along the Caspian Sea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar
A great article Melissa. Thanks.
And to add to the fray: There’s a theory that the Ashkenazi Jews may be the descendants of Khazars, a semi-nomadic Turkic people who flourished in the 7th century AD in the Northern Caucasus along the Caspian Sea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar
@taujb: wow, it’s starting to make me wonder if there’s anyone on earth who’s not Turkic! 😉
@taujb: wow, it’s starting to make me wonder if there’s anyone on earth who’s not Turkic! 😉
Good article!
Shows how little I know about Turkey and Turkish people.
Good article!
Shows how little I know about Turkey and Turkish people.
@Kris: thanks a lot – I didn’t know much, either, until I moved here, so you shouldn’t feel bad. 🙂
@Kris: thanks a lot – I didn’t know much, either, until I moved here, so you shouldn’t feel bad. 🙂
@Melissa: LOL! Hold and believe in that idea long enough and you will begin to think like those extreme right wing nationalists who claim almost exactly the same thing! 😀
@Melissa: LOL! Hold and believe in that idea long enough and you will begin to think like those extreme right wing nationalists who claim almost exactly the same thing! 😀
Melissa,
I am a Turk.
I discovered this article by mistake and just want to express my gratitude.
Great article.
Regards.
Melissa,
I am a Turk.
I discovered this article by mistake and just want to express my gratitude.
Great article.
Regards.
Hey Melissa, great article, thank you for pointing all this out. I have done a lot of research about Turks and Turkic roots as well and made a video of it on youtube.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=b8NCyW2zais.
Its real weird for me being labeled as an Arab when all this time as a turk i grew up thinking Arabs were black people (turks often call black people arabs).
The pictures you have of turks however are probably the minor turks that looks ethnicaly really mixed, i think Turks general are alot whiter than them such as myself, and we have alot of colored eyes and light colored hair. I think ethnically were more European mixed.
I use to think our roots were Asian because of Silk road and that’s when Turks were ever heard of, but after reading a lot i have found out that Turks were not Asian, Chinese first described Turks as the red haired people on silk road, as tradesman. So i guess we were Caucasian people that traveled to china and later on mated and adapted to Asian looks.
I hope my information has helped you even more about Turks, cause your information has helped me too. Love being a Turk as we still remain mystery and also the only race to knock out racism as we have mixed of all races in us
Afro-turks: stil few million left in the world, afro-turks are the black turks who speak turkish and are muslims, many live in turkey and some in africa and other places, search them up!
Asian turks: few of them remain such as Uyghur turks, i personaly met one family, she is chinese looking woman with naturaly blue eyes!! and we can understand eachother altough her dialec is different. aparently few milion left in china and they are trying cry out to the world for their rights.
European turks called Gagauz: They are the christian turks living in south of moldova and some other countries such as romania and ukraine
Many more different breed of turks, each of these different race of turks, all with different dialec but al speaking turkic language thats related to turkish. All have one in common, tough different ethnicity, they are all TURKS!
Ne mutlu turkum diyene :))
Hey Melissa, great article, thank you for pointing all this out. I have done a lot of research about Turks and Turkic roots as well and made a video of it on youtube.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=b8NCyW2zais.
Its real weird for me being labeled as an Arab when all this time as a turk i grew up thinking Arabs were black people (turks often call black people arabs).
The pictures you have of turks however are probably the minor turks that looks ethnicaly really mixed, i think Turks general are alot whiter than them such as myself, and we have alot of colored eyes and light colored hair. I think ethnically were more European mixed.
I use to think our roots were Asian because of Silk road and that’s when Turks were ever heard of, but after reading a lot i have found out that Turks were not Asian, Chinese first described Turks as the red haired people on silk road, as tradesman. So i guess we were Caucasian people that traveled to china and later on mated and adapted to Asian looks.
I hope my information has helped you even more about Turks, cause your information has helped me too. Love being a Turk as we still remain mystery and also the only race to knock out racism as we have mixed of all races in us
Afro-turks: stil few million left in the world, afro-turks are the black turks who speak turkish and are muslims, many live in turkey and some in africa and other places, search them up!
Asian turks: few of them remain such as Uyghur turks, i personaly met one family, she is chinese looking woman with naturaly blue eyes!! and we can understand eachother altough her dialec is different. aparently few milion left in china and they are trying cry out to the world for their rights.
European turks called Gagauz: They are the christian turks living in south of moldova and some other countries such as romania and ukraine
Many more different breed of turks, each of these different race of turks, all with different dialec but al speaking turkic language thats related to turkish. All have one in common, tough different ethnicity, they are all TURKS!
Ne mutlu turkum diyene :))
I’m a Turk and I’m %100 pure caucasian.Turkish people are mongrel people.I can’t count our ancestors.They’re so many.By the way i have green eyes, light brown hair.I look similar to a British.Yes,We’re very mongrel 🙂
I’m a Turk and I’m %100 pure caucasian.Turkish people are mongrel people.I can’t count our ancestors.They’re so many.By the way i have green eyes, light brown hair.I look similar to a British.Yes,We’re very mongrel 🙂
Just visited Turkey (loved it!!), and found this blog post while looking for more information.
The people of Turkey are ethnically diverse, and it is beautiful.
I think it would be hard for any non-Christian Turk to be 100% of any particular race – Turkey has been at the crossroads of East and West forever, and the balance between East and West is reflected in Turkey’s culture, ethnicities and lifestyle…a wondeful place, I hope everyone gets a chance to visit, and experience a true East meets West experience.
Just visited Turkey (loved it!!), and found this blog post while looking for more information.
The people of Turkey are ethnically diverse, and it is beautiful.
I think it would be hard for any non-Christian Turk to be 100% of any particular race – Turkey has been at the crossroads of East and West forever, and the balance between East and West is reflected in Turkey’s culture, ethnicities and lifestyle…a wondeful place, I hope everyone gets a chance to visit, and experience a true East meets West experience.